Africa Outlook Post COP28: Transcript

Transcript

Host: Welcome, everyone, to the launch of ESG and Sustainability Unpacked podcast. We’re excited to have you all here for our very first episode of our two-part series on post COP28. I’m your host Marilyn Obaisa-Osula, and I head the ESG and Sustainability practice at PwC Nigeria. 

We begin a critical examination of the outcomes of COP28 and how this affects us in Africa, not just us as individuals, but also as a continent, country and organisations. 

As we may all know, COP refers to the Conference of Parties by the United Nations convention on climate change. This event has happened year on year since 1995 in Berlin, Germany and so far, there’s been three critical ones before the COP28. First was COP21 where the Paris agreement happened, and we all committed to slowing down global warming. 

The second was called COP26 where commitments were called to question, and COP27 where for the first time, how this affects us as developing and developed countries were brought to the forefront of the discussion. Recently completed was the COP28 where the conversations around developed and developing countries were deeper, and there were more fundamental conversations around how companies or countries have done so far within the climate change space. It’s been a month now, we’ve gone on holiday and we are back but the conversation that happened in December definitely is going to affect us from this year and going forward. And with me today is a panel of Africans from the climate change space, Three of whom were part of the delegates to the COP28 from the African region of PwC and a doctor who is very known in the climate change space as well. 

The first discussant with me is Lulu. Lulu is a partner in strategy and our chief economist. And in PwC, she is also the sustainability platform leader. And by this, it means that she plays a role to help us coordinate our effort as we engage and support African organisations on climate change impacts and their sustainability aspirations. 

Second on the call is Shantel, a director in strategy and sustainability and climate change in south africa. She focuses on ESG transformation and climate adaptation strategy. Also on the call is the senior manager in our sustainability and climate change practice also from south africa, who focuses on just energy transition. With me as well is Doctor Mohammed Dahiru, policy manager on Methane pollution prevention in Africa with a clean air tax force. 

Doctor Mohammed has deep expertise in climate change. He will let us know if what he's been doing scientifically really has the effect on us as an organisation or even as our businesses. 

Please join me to welcome my discussants, as we go into the first discussion on the agenda. Thank you very much, everyone.

Shantel, you were a member of the African delegate to COP28. And definitely you saw things first and for yourself, also being someone who has played a critical role in advising clients on  ESG transformation and the climate adaptation strategy. Please let us know what happened at COP28. How does this affect us in terms of climate adaptation? What is the discussion all about? What should we be looking at? We heard about the first ever global stock take, that was new. Can you just give us some insight on that? 

Shantel: Thanks so much, marilyn. Great, so lovely to be here this morning. So the global golden adaptation and I think it's really good to start here, because as africa and as communities that are very vulnerable to the changes in our environment, we need to be focused on how we think through adaptation, how we think through what we are going to do in response to the resilience that we need. 

The goal was really about enhancing our adaptive capacity, about strengthening resilience, reducing vulnerability to climate change. And many sectors, if not, all sectors are needing to think through adaptation. While some might be more in the spotlight in terms of mitigation, every single sector will need to think through what it needs to do to change, to enhance and remain future fit and future proof. 

That's really when we talk about adaptation, what we're thinking through, what are the technologies, the finance, the capacity building that we need in order to remain relevant and successful despite all the change that we see around us. 

As we were at COP28 on the ground, a very hot year was experienced. In fact, it was the hottest year on record. And our global average surface temperature then was more than 2°, higher than the pre industrial levels for the first time in November. We are already in a world that is experiencing the impact of the emissions in our atmosphere. And that was echoed in Davos this year when the world economic forum released their global risk report, and those environmental risks that make up the half of the top ten risks over the next 10 years, name things like extreme weather events. Critical earth system changes, ecosystem collapse, and so our link to water, our link to natural resources, the ability to farm and produce food, and the ability to live healthy lives. And in a system that is safe and operating effectively is really at risk. 

Now is our time to think through how we are gonna respond. 

And we need to do that in a way that is cohesive and connected. We can't just be thinking about our energy system, the way that we think through transition, which is really important. And I know we're gonna talk about it soon, but we need to be thinking about, how do we manage nature loss? How do we manage our plastics, our waste, the impact that we have more broadly than carbon emissions on our social systems and on our environmental systems. That is what the goal for adaptation really points to, for me. And so what we've gotta get right there. Are the quantification of targets? And making sure that we have the right financial support, the finance gap that was recognized and echoed at Davos already after the COP, was that it was around U.S.$300 billion gap. 

So we really gotta think through how we are going to get access to the right people and the right project that's going to help our communities prevent extreme loss and damage from climate impact and think through how they can be resilient to the changes that they're going to experience in their respective sectors. 

But on a positive note, Marilyn, I think we as Africa already demonstrated a good ability to adopt and advance in the technology field, So, we don't have to be dependent on the systems that have been in place, perhaps in other countries or in our own. 

And we can look to the globe and see how we can move towards those decentralised nature, positive technologies, because those are the solutions when we get them to scale that are really going to help us with our adaptation goal. Thanks, marilyn. 

Host: Thank you. Very interesting. I think I quite agree with you, because sometime in January, I got a call from one of our partners to say you need to talk about climate change. It's raining in Lagos in January, and that's really weird. And he had also had a friend called to say, look, i've spoken to my Farmer colleagues to say, don't plant. This is a weird rain. It rained so heavily. People were really surprised because it's not supposed to be raining at that time. 

So really, we are beginning to get those effects and how the farmers adapt to this is all connected. Like you said. It's not just one sector. There's a lot of sectors that need to look into this. And we just really have to focus on this. Also, I have a small nephew who had said to me, climate change is easy to change, just put money in electric cars and we’ll be fine. 

So our children are also thinking about this as well. So it's a concern and it seems that we all have to look at it. 

Now, while there are risks and opportunities in that, we can't look away from climate finance. Everyone is acting, especially those in the finance sector. And I can see the CFO’s on the call. I'm sure they're really listening. We want to understand this climate finance. And over to you, Lulu. As our chief economist, I think we need you to really break this down. You were also part of the delegation, the African delegation to COP28 for PwC, you were right on ground when all these figures had been talked about. 300 billion a gap. But what exactly are the finance words saying about this?

Lulu: I think one of the key things that we've noticed over the last couple of years is there's been commitments to the extent of about $100 billion annually. and that has not been disseminated. Those targets were not met by the countries that made those targets. 

So we've gone through the process to actually say, let's take stock. It is actually called the global stock take to acknowledge that we didn't get there. And we are now in a process, something that started out at COP28, to come up with a collective quantified goal of, what do we need? Now, the range of funding that is needed at the moment is estimated to be almost close to six trillion US dollars. So between 5.8 and 5.9 trillion up to 2030 to actually meet the needs and the priorities of developing countries. So we didn't get there on the bus. We know that there's a lot more that's needed. And countries, especially in the developed world that committed money, realised we fell short of it. 

Now we need to go through a process to actually figure out what we have committed, And what we still need. The green climate fund also added another 3.5 billion to what has already been committed. But, we still have some way of where we need to be. The fact of the matter is we need to come up with innovative ways to disseminate green finance. If you look at typical infrastructure projects, for example, there's certain risks and rewards and ways that we've become used to doing things. The truth is, we need a different approach for green projects and green finance. We need to think differently from the way that we've been doing things and some of the innovative ideas that have been coming up and the people have been discussing out, rolling out etcetera, is trading systems, greenhouse gas trading systems, green bonds, green loans, a very interesting one for me, personally state for climate swaps. that swaps is something that's common in the financial world. 

Now we're talking about how do we write it out in the clockwise environment, and then also looking at public private partnerships. This is crucial, because what we see is governments saying, we have funding, but up to a particular level. And the private sector is saying we have funding, but there's a risk component that we're not comfortable with, and we need these two parties to get together and to meet each other to actually breach that. 

So the question is, how can the traditional finance institutions adapt the way that they're doing things? And how can governments actually come to the table and say, we are able to breach that gap. And that's where the development finance institutions and developed countries in particular, come in. And as exciting is it not even more exciting than some of these innovative financing ideas that we are talking about is new technology at what point do we scale? How do we scale? Because we need to do things fast. That's the point. I think Africa, as a continent, has proven that we are ready to take on new technology. If you look at certain industries, IT, new communication technologies, other types of technologies, we can actually leapfrog and we've seen some very, very interesting things already being done on the continent. 

Host: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Lulu. I just wanted to also mention, I had to challenge, at a particular forum, a group of CFO’s to say, especially from probably the financial sector to say, hey, I looked through the accredited parties for the green climate fund, For example, it was hard to see so many African financial institutions there, and they're there, but not so many. Why is this? And we are the ones really looking forward to harnessing this. 

And I see there are funds the finance open for African organisations to go for. But we seem to see a slow uptake. Why is this The issue? What do you think is the problem? Because even if we keep on talking about climate finance and the uptake is really slow, Then we are not going to still meet up with all the goals that have been set.

Lulu: Marilyn, it's complex. But I think one of the key messages that I've picked up is if you look at some of the solutions that the developed world wants to provide and how they want to finance some of these initiatives. Development finance institutions have very specific criteria that I would say, I only finance this type of project, or I only do this or do that. And that kind of approach is quite possible if you're looking at a developed nation where everybody has big access to electricity, and we now need to move to an alternative source of energy. 

But if you look at Africa, you would have a community, for example, and some people in the community would need electricity 24/7, others would say, listen, i'm at an income level where I can't afford full electricity, for example. But I would like to keep my fridge running, at least for some time. So we have to come up with diverse solutions. It seems that we are struggling to get the development and finance institutions to buy into that, to articulate that, to pull all the parties together.

 And in some instances, also, as Africa, we don't necessarily know how to structure that. So there's a very important bit in the middle where we need to think about technical on the ground solutions. It's often about what happens on the ground and how we do that. And then the other thing that I hear, but I'm less convinced of, is that governments in Africa are not necessarily always very clear about their policy approaches. 

So when companies or Development Finance Institutions or whoever is looking at what they are thinking about, I'm not sure where this government is going, and they're not being clear about their policy objectives. 

So that is something. But I think that's probably less of an issue. I think the bigger thing is that the solutions that are currently being used in the developed world cannot be just plug in or Copy and paste onto the African environment. 

Host: That sounds like there's a lot of opportunities there for structuring, for framework, for deep discussions, guiding government organisations, private partnership discussions, and things like that. And I look forward to seeing Africa do a lot of things this year and going forward. So we can harness more of the climate finance. 

Lastly, to you still, Lulu, it's on the lost and damaged fund that excited Africa at the COP27. What is it like at cop 28? Where is it after COP28? 

Lulu: So as you mentioned, that cop 27, when we in eventually reached that agreement to set up a loss of damage fund, everybody was really excited about it, but the challenge is that, again, similar to finance at this, the dissemination and bringing everybody in board and implementing the funds at this point in time is still a challenge. We still have some way to go. A lot of commitments have been made, about seven hundred million USD from various countries. And so it's a step in the right origin, but we are slow in terms of implementing and the bottom line is as Shantel said earlier we just cannot afford to drag our feet any longer. 

Host: Yeah, absolutely. So we look forward to seeing some progress in that area. Thank you, Lulu, for that. 

And now going to technology, going to the sector that speaks to climate change. And when I speak to clients and we talk, some would say, you know what, this climate change discussion has no business with me. But when we take it to energy, everyone's ear is open because there's no organisation, no country, no individual who doesn't use energy. And that's why the term just energy transition is very important. This way. The impact really hits everyone. Very critically, we could have said agriculture, but more critically, the energy sector. So to discuss this is, Matt, over to you. 

It looks like, finally, there's an understanding that the transition between the developing countries and they just transition for developed countries can't go at the same pace. 

And that's definitely some of the outcomes from the COP28, but you were there on ground. What was the perception? What do you think? Did it make sense to people? And were there any critical agreements that were made? What should organisations be looking at? Because the transition will definitely happen, but everyone then needs to key into it in one way or the other. Can you take us through that? Thank you, matt. 

Matt: Marilyn. So at COP, there were some really big agreements, one of the biggest being, the final wording of the text which talked about transitioning away from all fossil fuels, which is the first time that all fossil fuels have been included in the final wording out of a COP. 

I think what's important for Africa is that we've got over 600 million people in Africa who don't currently have access to bigger electricity. And traditionally, the way that the population has gone about this is other access to energy, through burning fossil fuel, or traditionally through fossil fuels, because they're cheap. And it's the source that Africa's got access to at this point in time. But alongside that. There was also a commitment to triple the world's renewable energy capacity as well as doubling energy efficiency within the next decade. I think that's partly important for africa. 

What it does mean is there's a potential risk of jobs, job losses in the traditional fossil fuel sectors. And so what is also important in the final text is that there was wording that then spoke to doing this in a just orderly and equitable manner. And I think that's partly important for africa. With renewable energy coming into the continent. What we've seen in this space is that a lot of predictions around renewable energy growth have just been completely out. And at the IEA last year, their predictions around how quickly the world's gonna hit it with the energy targets. 

That's because of the cost of renewing electricity at a sort of utility scale at this point in time. It's one of the cheapest sources of electricity for the utility, so that even if we don't do any further changes around policy and legislation, the cost side of things is going to drive renewable energy forward. 

So with that, obviously there's a lot of potential for the creation of jobs within the green sectors, but that just transition still needs to be managed, because you don't necessarily translate people from fossil fuels into the green sectors. 

And so how do we manage that? I think this is where Africa starts to sort of stand above the race, because Africa hasn't quite got to grips with the universe, so many people that kind of have access to electricity and that sort of stuff. But really shining lights. And on the use of south africa example is in 2022, south africa released its just transition framework that was developed by the president of climate change commission. 

This was then adopted by the cabinet and it’s a first for our countries to develop such a framework that just transitions forward, it talks to practical issues relating to jobs, the local economy, skills that are needed. What are the governance systems that are needed and really sets out a framework for how we move from fossil fuels to renewables? As I say, like the world is moving there, whether we want to move or not, the economics behind it just makes sense. But there's a few things that we've spoken about in terms of this. And I think what's gonna be key and listening to some of the davos conversations was one of the key messages that came out to me was this word collaboration. And you spoke about the finance side of things and that collaboration between the public and private, how that goes forward is gonna be so critical to Africa, achieving its energy transition agenda and making sure that we bring people along with us on that journey. 

Host: Thank you, Matt. I think what's very interesting I see in Africa is the innovation that also the just transition is driving. Like you said, the optics of renewable energy is really growing very strong, especially because it is coming from a challenge where there's not enough access to the energy, especially the home at the home front. 

So you see people really picking up on that. And it then tells the finance world where to dry finance too. So we hope that we would get innovation that is scalable that will drive equitable energy and sources and in a sustainable manner. And Africa gets to industrialise as well in a sustainable manner. I think that covers all those concerns, but I agree with you, the economics make sense and it is scalable, and we get good finance for that. That will drive a lot, and it would also help with the climate.

Luckily, Africa is not emitting as much, but still, if we industrialise  sustainable, then we will be in a better place than most of the developed world. And I look forward to seeing Africa doing that. 

Arising from that is going scientific, like you said  quite a lot and I'll just move over to doctor Mohammed. Doctor Mohammed, You've done a lot around maintaining a lot about all the gases that are beginning to, cause the climate change issues and discussions. I just want you to tie that to business. I want you to also tie that to the effects that it will happen per sector and what your general perception would be. Thank you, Doctor mohammed. 

Dr. Mohammed: Hello, everyone. Thank you very much for having me here today on this podcast with regards to the question on methane emissions and how viable it is for African countries to be able to take advantage of the opportunities that lie in cutting down emissions of methane. It's important to start by recognizing that methane is a powerful greenhouse gas. It is a short-lived climate pollutant or an SLCP as we sometimes call it. It is primarily emitted by human activities. It has an atmospheric lifetime of around 12 years. Now, methane severely exacerbates climate change. 

This is no news, but also, it has a number of indirect effects on human health, crop yields and the health of vegetation through its role as a precursor to the formation of tropospheric ozone. Having said that, I think that it is important to recognize the problem of methane emissions and how to reduce it lies solely in understanding, First and foremost, that methane emissions mitigation is not as expensive as carbon dioxide emissions mitigation. 

So usually, the funding that is required to reduce methane emissions may involve doing simple things or simple practices in the industry, such as closing your lead, or checking how effective are your valves, or checking how efficient are your pipeline for transporting natural gas, et cetera. 

This leads us to simple plumbing issues. This is not the case when you compare methane with carbon dioxide mitigation, which might sometimes involve doing bigger things, requiring bigger amounts of money, such as retrofitting industries that have already been existing for many years. You need to do a major structural change on those industries. In order for you to fit in carbon capture and storage facilities to transport these carbon that you have been able to capture by pipelines that may stretch across kilometres and then finding suitable geologic formation somewhere, where you will bury the Co2. And you are expected to do some monitoring over time periodically to ensure that there are no leaks and security is well contained and so on. 

Methane is not in that category, because most of the time, what you are saving when you reduce methane emissions will be paid for, or rather the effort that you will put in or the funding that you require in checking methane emissions will be paid for by the gas or the methane or the natural gas that you are actually saving. 

So it's very, very cost effective as it has been demonstrated in many parts of the world. Again, that being said, the second issue to note here is that there is the need to walk towards having ambitious policies for all sectors that emit methane by the African government. So I'm now talking as an african, given that the question directed to me, is a question about looking at the african perspective on methane emissions and how africa can play a role in effectively mitigating methane from different sectors. I think there is a need to have ambitious policies from all sectors, whether this sector is oil and gas, whether it is agriculture, whether it is waste, organic waste, and so on. 

Again, there is also need to mention here that Nigeria has an existing methane guideline or maintain regulations for the oil and gas industry in the country. So Nigeria is the first African country to approve methane guidelines for the oil and gas industry. 

I think this is exemplary and this is worthy of commendation. We are working with the Nigerian government, particularly the Nigerian upstream petroleum regulatory commission to support the commission in ensuring that those regulations are well implemented. We are supporting them with policy and technical guidance to ensure that the operators that the NUPRC or the Nigerian government is regulating, are able to understand the need to effectively make use of those regulations. 

Having said that, there is a need for other african countries, whether they are oil and gas producers, or countries where you could have methane emissions from other sectors to also consider the need to have guidelines, even in the oil and gas industry. 

The work is not yet done, because if you take Nigeria, for instance, we only have methane guidelines for the upstream petroleum sector. We don't have those guidelines for the midstream and downstream sector. 

So an organisation like the NMDPRA that takes care of activities in the midstream and downstream. Part of the oil sector in Nigeria needs to also come up with decent regulations that reduce methane emissions. There is the need, I believe, for African countries to replicate what is happening in Nigeria, not only for the oil and gas industry in Nigeria, but also for all the other sectors that we believe contribute significant methane emissions to the atmosphere. 

Again, Nigeria is leading the way. So if there are any lessons that we could learn from that, probably other african countries can leverage the lessons learned in nigeria to avoid whatever challenges that may come their way during policy formulation, as well as the most important aspect of it, which is policy implementation, effective policy implementation. 

Talking about commitments on methane emissions globally, the COP that took place in dubai, which I believe is COP28 that took place last year 2023 is so far the biggest scope that ever happened from the perspective of methane emissions. What do I mean by that? I mean that there has never been any cope previously that had considered methane emissions mitigation at the level or the magnitude that the recently concluded COP in dubai had done. We all know that there are commitments such as those that were termed, lowering organic waste, methane or low methane. 

And out of several of those commitments, I would say that low methane is one of those initiatives that seek to spur intense global action to cut methane emissions from the waste sector. Under the low methane initiative, there is this desire to deliver at least 1 million metric tons of annual waste sector, methane reductions, well before 2030 by working with 40 sub national jurisdictions and their national government counterparts to unlock up to ten billion usd in public and private investments. This is a huge commitment and beyond oil and gas, this is a suggestion or an indication that methane emissions from other sectors are also gaining a lot of momentum. 

Now, when you look at these commitments closely, you will see that it is suggesting the need to move away from majorly, focusing on mitigation efforts, from oil and gas to other areas that will include waste. Personally, I believe that those who are involved in methane emissions, mitigation activities from policy to technology and whatnot. And here I am talking from experience. I think people like me and many others who are in this sector who are working on methane, need to even diversify our skills to become perhaps experts, if we can, in other sectors that emit methane beyond the oil and gas sector, where we have, or where I could say that I have some considerable advantage by having been educated in the areas of geoscience and petroleum engineering and carbon capture and storage and other allied subjects within the environment, the environmental space. 

This suggests to me that also, there is the need to probably start looking at emissions from agriculture. Let's not forget that agriculture contributes a lot of methane emissions, mainly from enteric fermentation, from cows or remnants, and also from digesters. So there is a lot of research and development going on in the area of agric methane mitigation. But then there will probably be more commitments in the future in that area, just as we are seeing for ways. As if the commitments that we've seen so far from cop 28 in dubai is any indication. 

So I feel African countries can easily key into these commitments, because the will is there the global commitment and the will globally? Is there? So all that african countries need to do is to ensure that they are ready or african leaders need to do is to ensure that they are ready to walk towards, implementing or formulating and implementing global best practices in the form of policies for methane emissions mitigation in different sectors. 

I would say that there are a lot of opportunities to work on emissions and we shouldn't relent. Thank you. 

Host: Fantastic conversation, Dr. Muhammed. Thank you so much for taking us through this very interesting conversation. Now we're going over the opportunities. Chantel, you spoke about climate adaptation and the transformation required. Let's bring it down to our everyday business, our everyday work. What three areas or emerging areas of the economy do you think that climate change is gonna push as a very great opportunity for countries? 

Chantel: So I think I'm gonna draw back to my initial points around the links and how we need to solve the problem in the system. And I think one of our big opportunities is to start thinking about it in the way that we are solving for more than just carbon emissions and the mitigation, but we're also solving for increasing quality of life. 

We're decoupling our growth in our industrialization from the impact that has had in the way it was done before. There's so many lessons that we can learn from other economies that didn't decouple and are suffering from the result of air pollution, natural loss, ecosystem collapse, water scarcity. So let's think in terms of the big growth areas, I think it's gonna be those that are able to help us decouple. So we are using less resources to get the result we want in terms of quality of life, human health, access to finance, access to opportunities for new business opportunities. And if we think about it at the moment over half, our total GDP it creates to about U.S.$44 trillion is monetary or highly dependent on natural resources. 

And so therefore, if we look at how we are at risk in that area, the opportunity to turn that on his head is that if we can create business value, let's be entrepreneurs and create new businesses that solve for our water crisis, our health crisis, access to finance, access to technology, and create business value. We can see trillions of dollars rather in the positive, as well as new jobs linked to sort of addressing some of our sustainable development goals by 2050. 

And so there's definitely ways that I know I'm being high level, but I think the key principle is we've got to be creative and the way we think through how we do business, what is going to generate revenue in the future. It's gonna look different from how we generate revenue in the past. And if we can be creative about circular thinking and redesign, design out, waste, those are going to be the things that are going to really sort of leapfrog society and be very popular in terms of investor circles. 

Host: Absolutely. We're looking at things like the circle economy, the green economy, the blue economy. Interesting times ahead. We hear about creating jobs like the green jobs. I don't know if there's something called blue jobs, but let's see, but there's green jobs I know. So that's lots of opportunities. And I see especially a lot of our generations that are millennia. Speaking of these innovations and quite exciting, we hope the finance structures within pick up pace with that. 

I'm also just going back again to the lost and damaged fund. I think from what we see, what the countries need to look at right now is to say, who is the custodian of this bond? Who is the fund with? where exactly are these funds going to sit, is it the world banks, IFC, what's the approach and things like that? Lulu, what do you think about that? I think that loss and damage would be very, very critical for Africa in terms of adaptation, especially there's a lot of flooding issues, there’s energy issues, and people also want to pick up on and on those kinds of funds. 

How do you see that going forward? 

Lulu: Yeah, Marilyn, I think that's a conversation that we get back to quite often, as they say. But as Africa, we definitely are not the main contributors to climate change. So why should we pay for it? First of all, and then secondly, we and other developing nations are most severely impacted by it. And the world economic forum, Chantel mentioned the risk level risk report in the beginning of the conversation and one of the key things that's been highlighted, this is as a risk, is where people have to forcibly migrate because of circumstances, either flooding or droughts or and so on. 

And we're gonna see a lot of that, unfortunately, in Africa, if it is gonna happen. 

So I think and that's the point where adaptation comes in as well. We can do the mitigation that we can, but some of these things are gonna happen. So how are we gonna look at it? How are we going to help these countries and people? And that's where the loss and damage fund comes in. However, it's been a bit controversial. I suppose it's a little bit and I don't want to equate it to that kind of relationship. But if your parents and you give your child money, and do you want to look at how they spend it? I think there's a little bit involved in that and you all of that involved. And she wants to get to a point where the money goes, where it's most needed and has the most significant impact. 

So that's part of the challenge with the loss and damage fund at the moment is, how would the application process be managed? How much would go? Where good, how do we manage it? And the thinking at the moment is to try and make that as diverse and as objective as possible. You definitely don't want a situation where everything is managed by the developed world. Let's be honest, if we look, for example, at some of the money that was distributed during covid, a lot of that funding through the IMF actually ended up in the developed world, although that was not the intention. 

So that is really something that we need to guard against at the moment. Having said that, I wanna come back to what I said earlier. It's really crucial that we get moving on this. So let's sort that out not be precious. Realise that this is a problem that affects all of us. It's going to impact all of us. Let's get to a solution and get moving. 

Host: Yeah, absolutely. The fund has been a marked for developing countries and small island developing countries as well. So we hope that we, in this particular, within that definition of a push for it, to ensure that this is operationalized, because I think it would go a long way in the country. 

So we're going to our final words, just like in one sentence each, just to give our final thoughts on beats. I know one of the critical things people will wonder listening to is how this affects my business? I think it's time to begin to look at this in particular, especially the divers, WAF risk and ask yourself critical questions about my risk, where my opportunities are, what my strategy is, because the future will be different. enough of talking about it, but it's already looking. 

So you need to begin to look at that and very quickly as well. 

So your final words I will start with, matt. In one sentence, what would be your spinal words to everyone on the call? 

Matt: I think to make it practical, it's where do I start from an energy perspective? And so I think you really want to start with efficiencies. How do I use less electricity or energy in my business? I think that's the fundamental starting point, because that saves you money over time. It means you need to buy less or get less energy going forward. So that's the starting point for me. Then I think it's then looking at what are the incentive structures in my environment from a regulatory perspective, while the tax breaks anything like that, I can explore to help me fund sort of an energy transition. Then lastly, it is that procurement of energy and some a stable source of energy, hopefully a green source of energy.

I think that's where I spoke about collaboration. In South Africa, we're working on AA sort of an aggregate, a model with government and private business where these people that are wanting to sell power, these people that are wanting to buy power, and then coming together. And that's working together is really where we can achieve this. Because trying to do this on your own, it costs too much of a headache. So let's tap into using each other. It saves costs, as I said, utility scale, renewable electricity is cheap. I'm thinking about this on a bigger scale is really the way to go about it. 

Dr Mohammed: Final words for me are that we should recognize as Africans that these commitments for GHG mitigation, whether it's carbon dioxide or methane emissions, demonstrate a promise, but moving from commitments to action requires recognizing that governments and the private sector and the civil society, et cetera, need to come together and work in synergy toward achieving a common goal for mitigation, if need be adaptation. Thank you very much.

Host: Absolutely. There's quite a lot of opportunity in the carbon markets as well. With the carbon credits, the voluntary market, at least for now. As there's been a lot of constructive criticism on those on the market. But I think it's improving and they're really scaling up with the voluntary markets and carbon credits. There's a lot to talk about. We can do that within 30 minutes. And so we need to look up towards our part two. There will be part two of this postcode 28. But this time we'll be speaking more practically and just trickling down things. But we needed to start with how it affects Africa, what we should be thinking about. So I'll just take the final words from Shantel. 

Host: I think we had a lot from Lulu. So let's just take the final words from Chantel and please stay tuned as we look forward to the second part of this Post COP28 series. Please send us your questions as well. And Chantel will be given us the closing. Thank you. Chantel over to you. 

Chantel: Thank you for our opportunity. Great. I would say, let's look at our operating context differently. Fresh eyes on what we could achieve out of this risk dilemma and Challenge. Don't discount the future. Let's really prioritise those sustainable development goals. 

Host: Thank you, everyone and see you at the next post COP28 discussion. Send us your questions so that we are addressing them to make you happy. Thank you, everyone. Bye.