Podcast transcript: Episode 20-Digitizing the Traditional Savings Box

Transcript

Host: Hello, you're listening to the Experience pod. My name is Ada Irikefe. The experience pod is a 30-minute one-on-one interviewer-led podcast that discusses the adoption and utilization of relevant emerging technologies and trends for impact-oriented professionals, researchers, developers, and students who demand realistic and thought-provoking perspectives on the opportunities and challenges presented by these phenomena in our unique environment.

We will be discussing digitizing the traditional savings box from savings to investment. Saving is one of the most common and most repeated bits of financial advice. An Adage that Nigerians seemed to love is saving for the rainy day, an expression used to convey how savings prepare you for financial emergencies. As children, we were encouraged to deposit monetary gifts with our parents or keep money in piggy banks, but studies are showing that despite these positive attitudes towards savings, Nigerians are barely saving.

Gross domestic savings expressed as a percentage of GDP in Nigeria was reported at 21.66% in 2020, according to the world bank collection of development indicators, our fellow African countries, Zambia and Gabon performed 1.9 times and 2.2 times, respectively, better than Nigeria. Beyond Africa, India stood at 31.4%, which is about 1.5 times better than McCall a country. The south coast of China has the highest savings rate, almost three times better than Nigeria with 64.3%. Based on the stats. Nigeria still has a long way to go in terms of savings. I am hopeful that growth is around the corner with the advent of fintech.

So today players in the FinTech space are transforming. The way people save, spend, invest, and much more.             

To talk more about driving the savings and investment culture through digital transformation. I'd like to welcome The co-founder and COO of piggyvest, Odunayo Eweniyi. 

Odunayo: Hi

Host: Odunayo It is a pleasure having you at the experience pod, we usually start by asking our guests to give a brief overview of their organization. What do you do? How would you describe your organization and what is distinct about your operations? So I would hand over the mic to you. Thank you. 

Odunayo: PiggyVest is a savings and investments company that we founded in 2016 and the goal is to help young Nigerians save little amounts of money daily, weekly, or monthly towards their targets, and more importantly, when they've been able to save in short bursts, like 90-day periods, we present them with micro-investment opportunities that allow them to earn more that they.

Previously, typically would not have had access to it. So our core things are typically focused on affordability and accessibility. How do we make financial freedom a reality for all Nigerians, but more focused on young people like us?

Host: Fantastic. So, thanks Odunayo for that Nice intro. So if we were to go a little bit further, would you say that your focus is on the youth and low earners? Are there any other subsets or groups that you're thinking of in the near future? 

Odunayo: Well. I mean, I think that when we started, we started with the focus on our generation, young people like us but that has evolved very quickly since we started. So when we started, it was mostly young people who came here as a platform. That can help you put together more needs daily, weekly, and monthly in small bursts. But over the past six years, what we've seen is adoption by other people, people who are not young people, people who would typically previously were not primarily focused on. So we've seen the market expand, PiggyVest isn't just for young people. Piggyvest is for everyone. Everyone who is able to interact with financial services on their phone can absolutely use our platform.

Host: So great. Thanks for that clarification. So piggyvest is for everyone. I know that initially when you started, it was more about the young ones, it was more about who is using a smartphone more effectively. So let's talk about your service offerings. You currently have four different ways to save automated, fix,goal-oriented and How are they performing? Are there any interesting trends or patterns that you have observed in the last maybe three years? 

Odunayo: Well, I think it's fascinating how People have the same habits that they have with their bank accounts in their piggy vest except they're more conscientious with saving on piggy vest just because it's separate from their spending money.

So naturally, the two most used ones are the fixed and the flexible. So those are the two top ones. The goal-oriented ones are used, the automated ones are used but a lot of people are more of I'm going to lock up this money, or I am going to put this money here. It will earn some interest for me, but I can access it whenever I want.

So those are the two top features on the savings side. So both of them are like top two there is pretty much a tie. Then the other ones come after.

Host: So in terms of your investment services I'm aware that you offer the opportunity to invest as low as 5,000 Naira, which is quite unique, in a variety of ventures and products. How do you choose the offerings you bring to your platforms and what are your customers' top choices? 

Odunayo: I think that it's mostly for us what kind of investments are high yield or high enough yields, safe and would pose little to no risk.to our users. So there are obviously other indications that the treasury and compliance team we used to select, but on the high level, that's how we even decide we're going to have a conversation with these people about being exposed to our users.

So you need to be high enough yield because if they cannot get a high enough yield from you, they might as well just leave their money where it is. It needs to be safe and then he needs to pose little to no risk. When we say high enough yield when I'm looking at how can we get our users 18% per annum when normal fixed deposits are like 10, 12 to 13% per annum, just something that's slightly more elevated? That makes it worth it for them to lodge their funds there and then it needs to be safe and pose little to no risk to user funds. Basically, their funds must come back and our users trust us to be able to make those decisions before we list on the platform.

So they pretty much would like it. We have investments that are completely bought out in a matter of minutes, not even up to two hours. So it's really not about which one they like the most is about which one can we trust piggyvest to have vetted properly before presenting to us and we take that responsibility very seriously.

Host: Nice. That's good to know for people like me, talking about trust, at PwC we are very big on trust and you've talked about your customers trusting you to put the money down and giving them the necessary returns and their capital

How would you say Piggy vest has been able to initiate, manage and sustain trust with the user? I mean, there's been a lot of horror stories. I'm sure. You know what I'm talking about. How do you think you are sustainably reframing the way Nigerians think about savings as well when we talk about trust.

Odunayo: So, I think that Nigeria is a very low-trust environment. When we started in 2016, it was like never more apparent than then that we were in a low-trust environment because the question that people had was why should we trust you with an electronic platform with no branches with our money? So I cannot tell you that this is the formula for building trust. Because it's an ongoing thing, every day that people who founded piggy vest, and people who work at piggyvest wake up, we wake up to continue to earn our user's trust.

So it's basically a combination of two things saying exactly what you can do. We don't make promises that the platform cannot fulfill ever. So we say exactly what we mean, and then we try to live up to those services. We take customer experience and customer success very, very seriously.

We want each and every one of our users. When we started, there were like 700 in 2016, but today they're in the millions, but that doesn't matter because each one of them must feel like we are treating their problem as unique. We are treating your problem as we are treating you as a human being and you are not just talking to a brand, you're talking to the humans behind the brand, and we're making sure that when you do leave after your problem has been solved, you feel like you were valued, you are welcomed, you were listened to, and we fixed your problem. So customer experience and us continuing to make promises that we can fulfill, and then the usual daily of just continuing to exist, continuing to make an impact on our users' lives. So it's not really, you do this and people trust you. I don't think that's a real thing.

I think that every day you continue to work towards earning their trust and never breaking the one that you've already earned. 

Host: Sure and that's very true. Odunayo, because if you think about your growth in 2016, from 700 to millions, I mean, if somewhere along the line you have broken trust, you're not going to end this number of people.

You're not going to end their businesses. And these people that you've acquired along the way. Ultimately become your brand ambassador based on the trust they have. So yeah, spot on thank you for that. Great. I know that recently initially when you launched in 2016, you launched as piggybank .ng.A savings-only platform, you've now rebranded to Piggyvest. Right. And we've talked a little bit about you offering direct investment opportunities in addition to savings. What other services do you see Piggyvest offering in the near future and why? 

Odunayo: I mean, the rebrand from piggybank.ng which was the name that we really loved to piggyvest was basically due to, we want to be able to offer an expanded suite of services and we don't want to be limited by our name. So we rebranded and today it's very clear where we want to take piggyvest to. We started with savings. We've added investments. We are adding other suites of products and why? The goal for us is to become a digital wealth management platform, which means that we want the young people we have on our platform, our current users to not just be able to access savings, and investment through the platform, but to be able to access other financial services.

So we're going to move into other financials. If people can save their money in need or assign finances to it. Then we will probably be headed there at some point.

Host: Okay. That sounds good. So that's a digital wealth management platform. I like that, and out of interest, did you remove the bank because you felt it was limiting? I really liked the name Piggyvest, I suppose, to piggy bank. 

Odunayo: Yeah, that's actually why we did it. That's why we rebranded. We thought if we continue with "piggybank" there's the danger that people will see us as providing banking services. We didn't want to be constrained by that. 

Host: It makes sense. Cool. Great. So my next question, and you talked a little bit about it where you talked about looking at smartphones in terms of your audience, now. So what I'm hearing you say is you're leveraging people with smartphones and bank accounts.

I know looking at your app you have more than a million downloads. Say for instance, on Google play store. But what about the 80 to 90% of the Nigerian population who do not use smartphones and 36% of Nigerian adults who do not use any form of financial services, such as bank accounts, what are your plans for them?

Odunayo: Honestly, we have been thinking about that and the idea for us is we don't want to treat financial inclusion as a buzzword. So I'm not going to sit here and tell you, we have X plans. No, we really will have to put some thought behind it. I've never approached the unbanked as people who don't have or who don't bank.

I think that the unbanked are currently banking. So we should not be actually referred to as the unbanked. I just think that they do differently than the rest of us who are in the formal banking sector. So I believe that piggyvest in its current state, isn't suited for the unbanked because it's built with people who have bank accounts in mind, if you are going to view the product for the unbanked, you have to speak to unbanked and then build a product that meets their habits, that fits their lifestyle, that fits their needs, just like piggyvest fits the lifestyle habits and needs of people who have bank accounts. So while that is something that we consider and we're seriously considering we're not trying to make them, or force a square peg into a round rolling that we are going to just build a live version of piggyvest and tell them to use it. I don't think that's appropriate. I think that the more appropriate thing would be to listen to them and then build a platform or tailor a service that actually fits their needs. For instance, you cannot tell people who live on less than $3 a day to save their way into prosperity.

That's false. It doesn't work and so you need to figure out what they really need and how can a service like ours edit itself to fit their lives, fit their habits, fit their needs. So we've been thinking about it and it's not a step that we take lightly, and it's not a step that we'll take without having a fully fleshed solution.

Host: Well said really it's a case of just focusing on your call and if the opportunity arises then you will just turn into that area so question again, we've talked a little bit about customer experience and I know that, we are also big on huge factors for customer loyalty. So in fact, it's been said that 86% of buyers are willing to pay more for a great customer experience. I fall into that key as well. Customer loyalty is becoming less about the price and quality of products, and more about who consistently provides the most personalized, friendly experience.

How is Piggyvest differentiating its customer experience from other traditional and non-traditional players? Are you using technologies, for instance, to achieve this? 

Odunayo: I mean, I think that is a great illustration of stats and yes absolutely we are using technology. It's how piggyvest grew in the first five and a half years based on word of mouth.

So we've experienced incredible organic growth between 2016 and 2021. So one of the ways that you can illustrate, like the consistency, is how people constantly without fail, recommend piggyvest to their loved ones, to their friends, to their families. You can open Twitter and you will see several tweets of people saying "Oh, I sat down with my mother and I put her through" we're not paying them to do that and they're doing it all on their own.

And that in and of itself is very illustrative of the relationship we have with our users, without them we wouldn't be here. And how much trust they've lodged into the platform enough that they are willing to spend time and allocate energy to bring another person onto the platform. The only answer that I can give you is consistency. Why? Because there are several products that kind of offer similar to what Piggyvest offers, but people time and again, choose to give us consciously and then inspire other people to do the same. There are a lot of things that we've built within the product as I mentioned, affordability, accessibility, ease, seamlessness, customer experience and all of those things, but more than anything, I think we built in consistency and that shines through to the users.

Host: No fair play consistency is huge and that's enough for customer loyalty. So let's move into technology. Let's talk a little bit about technology. Thankfully we are in an era where technology has just taken the front seat in everything we do.

And if we talk about technology and how technology has also gone, allowing us to go beyond mobile and Internet banking and venture into digital finance. If we talk about what you've also mentioned, digital wealth management. CBN has recently released the E-naira. I think this is a discussion for another day. And these days, we talk about cryptocurrencies. It's either bitcoin is achieving a new, all-time high, or a new currency is being developed on the back of blockchain technology. As I said, technology is at the forefront. How do you see these developments affecting the rate of savings and investment? And are there plans to leverage on blockchain in your service offering?

Odunayo: Well, I mean, I don't think that those things will do anything but improve the rates of savings and investment. I see them as complementary new technology for the most part and should not be treated as suspicious. New technology is almost always complimentary, but not almost always progressive.

There are a few exceptions, but for the most part. Yeah. So I'm very excited about the prospect of blockchain and what it means for us and just the general Nigerian populace. It represents even more freedom, especially for young people. It puts the power in your hands. That being said, we're a regulated entity.

So what that means is we are also bound by the laws of the land and for as long as there are restrictions on cryptocurrency trading in Nigeria, we will unfortunately not be able to offer it, but I can say that the moment is lifted. We will be the first to make sure that our users are getting a benefit from it 

Host: Nice one. Someone once asked me a question and said, what's your biggest regret or what did you wish you had done maybe like a couple of years ago. I said "really?" I wish I had understood Bitcoins more. So I guess you're ready once we're good to go on Bitcoins, or cryptocurrency as the case may be. My next question, we've talked about emerging technologies like blockchain, but then you also have AI. IoT(internet of things), and you also have big data analytics, which are making financial processes easier and more efficient. Reducing things like errors. 

You talked about how technology has made customers interact better. Are you currently using any specific emerging technology to innovate in your service offerings and from your experience, which technology do you think has the most potential to transform the market?

Odunayo: I think that if you are a FinTech company, you are mostly cold. You definitely always use new technology and not in ways that you particularly notice. There's a new thing launched every day and you figure out new ways things fit into your business and it's using new technologies almost seamlessly for us. In ways I can't even begin to isolate, communication with our users has been much improved with the advent of new products and new technologies. How we build apps, and how we push updates to apps. Before, we had to get people to go to the app store every day to download a new version of the app, and that still subsists, although for smaller updates, we can push it here and a simple log-out, log-in means that people have gotten the updates. So I think that yes, we're constantly using new technology to improve upon the app. Like usually just moving forward and adopting them so fast that it's hard to kind of isolate. Oh, this one is new. This one is old. 

Host: True talk that technology has just penetrated every aspect of the way we interact, whether from a personal or from a business point of view. So my last question on technology is, recently Facebook has rebranded itself as "meta" whatever we want to call it, to align with its new focus on the metaverse, and its supposedly a merging of the physical world with XR, AR, VR, and blockchain. Apparently, this is going to change the way we interact and work and leave. What are your thoughts on this Metaverse and Just like the internet accelerated transformation across sectors. Do you see Metaverse fueling the tail wings for any financial trends? 

Odunayo: I used to play games quite a lot growing up and even still now. So I am very familiar with the concept of being immersed in a different universe for extended periods of time, which is what the Metaverse really is. Virtual reality becoming mainstream, I don't think is a bad thing. I don't think it's for everyone, but I think it answers to users. I think that you can certainly find an application for it for people who are, for whatever reason, immobile and can go to places that they would like to see, being able to experience it, regardless of where you are.

It's an experience that I think would prove valuable. So again, it probably won't become as mainstream as we in tech would like to believe but I think it will find some use in, like several specific use cases, and that's a good thing.

Host: Interesting. Like with anything we would wait and see but technology is definitely catching fire so I know that this would also make the necessary headway. So let's step it down a little bit. As part of the Experience Pod, we normally would ask them three compulsory questions and they're supposed to be fun questions, not necessarily related to your areas of specialization, but you can tap into that if necessary. So my first question would be what was the last prediction you got wrong?

Odunayo: The last prediction I got wrong, I mean, I don't typically like to predict. I only do it when I'm forced to. I actually can't remember any predictions I've gotten wrong because I'm not in the habit of making predictions. I'm mostly pessimistic. So I don't like to speak too far into the future 

Host: So the lockdown happened, then you said, nah, the lockdown, you know, it will be over in two weeks. 

Odunayo: No, I thought it was going to be longer than two weeks and I was right.

Host: So what's the prediction? 

Odunayo: Well maybe my last prediction was the one I got wrong, that Bitcoin was going to hit 100k by December. I don't know if I'm going to be right, but it's currently dipping. So I guess that would be the last one I got wrong. 

Host: Okay. Well, we're not yet in December, so let's see I will remember to send you a text message just before. Okay. So the second question would be what's one view you seem to find very few people agree on?

Odunayo: That's a fascinating question 'One view that few people agree on' Well, I don't think few people agree on it, I think fewer that should agree, agree on it. That's one of the best ways to lift people out of poverty is capitalism.

Host: Okay. I would probably talk more about that, but that's an interesting one. The last question from our last guest Onyeka Akumah who's the CEO of Farmcrowdy asked our next guest. He wasn't sure who the guest was, but his question is, if you could go back 10 years and change something about yourself, what would it be?

Odunayo: if I could go back to a particular period in my life. I wouldn't have bent as much to satisfy people as I did. I recovered from that and I no longer do it. For a short window there, I was very intent on people approving of me that I would bend over backwards. That doesn't help anybody, certainly didn't help me. I don't encourage people to do it. So that's what I'd go back and change. 

Host: Nice. What's the one thing you would advise the young ones and what's the best way to overcome that? If you had a one-liner. 

Odunayo: It's to be self-aware just knowing who you are, know where you're going, know why you're going there. Once you know all those three things, it's very easy to remain yourself. It's easy for you to resist external influence and you don't have to like to edit yourself as much to fit into situations or circumstances.

Host: Fantastic. Sorry. I had to clap at that. So they say that disruption is interrelated and in that respect, what's one perspective you like to get from our next interviewee? Don't know who the next interviewee is. So it's any question. 

Odunayo: From the next interviewee, I'd like to know their thoughts on the evolution of the Nigerian tech ecosystem. It doesn't matter if they're in tech or not in tech, I'd just like to hear their thoughts.

Host: Okay. so that's assuming you mean that our next interviewee is in the tech space, right? 

Odunayo: No, I actually think that the most interesting perspectives about tech come from people who are not in tech 

Host: That's true. Okay. So we'll definitely keep you posted just listen out for the next question that will be answered. Well, we'll definitely keep you posted on that. So I want to say a very big thank you, Odunayo. Thank you so much for your time. Your questions and your answers have been extremely enlightening and I've definitely learned quite a bit.

For some reason, I would put my hands up to say that I actually thought Piggyvest was more targeted at the younger ones, but you dispelled that. So I'm going to download mine. Keep doing what you're doing. It's a great job. You guys are doing there, and at some point, we will like to see you guys go way beyond not just Nigeria, as far as you want to. So thank you so much for your time and have a wonderful day.

Odunayo: Thank you. It was a pleasure to be here. 

Host: Thank you.