Podcast transcript: Revolutionising the Nigerian SME Space

Host: This is the Experience pod, where we focus on emerging technologies, trends, and their impact on business landscapes in Nigeria and across Africa. SMEs play a major role in most economies, and of course, according to the World Bank, they represent about 90% of businesses and more than 50% of employment worldwide, specifically in emerging markets. SMEs serve as a backbone by contributing to economic growth. According to the 2020 Nigeria SME survey, which we conducted at PWC. SMEs in Nigeria contribute about 48% of our national GDP. And account for 84% of our employment. So basically, no SME, no economy. But despite the significant contributions of SMEs to the Nigerian economy, the number of challenges still persists, and hinder the growth and development of the sector. For one, about half of registered SMEs don't have access to formal credits, according to the 2020 Nigerian SME Survey. Coupled with tax challenges, the lack of entrepreneurial education, growing competition, infrastructural deficit deficits, and of course some macroeconomic obstacles. However, with the right policies, reforms, regulations, and infrastructure in place, this sector has the potential to transform the Nigerian economy by taking advantage of technology Primera delivers fast, convenient financial solutions to SMEs with a strong belief that the success of Nigeria's economy is contingent on their growth. To add insights to this conversation, we're joined by the MD of Primera MFB, Mr. Unwana Esang. Welcome Unwana, we're happy to have you.

Mr. Unwana Esang: Thank you so much. Pleasure being here.

Host: Yes, so, you're welcome. And I'll be your host for today. My name is Bimbola Banjo. I'm a partner with the management consulting practice at PWC. And I look after FInance Advisory for West Africa. So let's have some background Unwana.

Mr. Unwana Esang: Of course.

Host: Tell me about the Primera journey. So far?

Mr. Unwana Esang: Yeah, thanks. Thanks very much. It's been a two-and-a-half-year journey so far for me. And it's been hugely exciting. Journey Primera, all I could see was huge opportunities, I mean, a huge opportunity set and a platform that one could leverage to explore and deliver on those opportunities. And it's been really exciting getting to know the people, manage the people and grow the business and also engage with the markets. It's been fantastic.

Host: Very good, very good, so let's talk about Primera's offerings. So what do you guys do at Primera? Because we know you have conventional products, such as loan deposits, which are the bread and butter of any MLB. But just tell us, well, how have you guys differentiated your processes your experience in assessing these products, or in delivering these products, as a differentiator to what other financial institutions are doing?

Mr. Unwana Esang: Yeah, I mean, that's a very interesting question. And the first, the first thing I'd like to say is that we're operating in a highly commoditized market, right? Products and services are pretty much the same across because the platforms that help financial services institutions to deliver those products and services are democratized. They're available absolutely. And in as much as we are very, very bullish and keen on leveraging on those platforms, we've realized that it's, it's become less about the products and services, but more around how we deliver them, how we engage, and how we are able to get from our customers what their needs are. And within the context of the available capacities of those products and services, tweak them to meet their needs. So I mean, for us, we consider ourselves to be partners for growth. And in realizing that we've focused, we're focusing more on how we deliver and engage realizing that no, two businesses are the same, really. So we have a differentiated approach in terms of delivery and service.

Host: Speaking more about this, how you engage and deliver, yeah, tell us more about the how.

Mr. Unwana Esang: So the how is more around first of all, you need to know your customer, it's a cliche, right, but there's a lot that goes into that. What, is the customer's dream, what are their ambitions? And are you then able to look back into your delivery systems and even in your internal processes, and policies, to make sure that You are able to be nimble? And you're able to deliver different experiences to different customers from the same platforms, according to the differentiated needs that just, that's the way I would just couch it an envelope that, that particular point.

Host: Okay, thank you very much. So, we know that primarily caters to individuals and businesses alike. I think what we've noticed is that you have a keen interest, in SMEs. 

Mr. Unwana Esang: Yes, we do.

Host: So what were your products tailored to them?

Mr. Unwana Esang: So that the number one need from an SME in terms of financing is speed, and speed of service, they typically run their cash flows in daily weekly cycles. And therefore the financial gap that they experience, you know, presents itself in those ways. So what we've done is, we have come up with systems and capacities that allow us to deliver that, that need, 

Host: Okay.

Mr. Unwana Esang: Quickly. And that's at the point of need, and how they want it so that for us, that's, that's how we've been able to provide that because when we look at it, that is actually one to what they need. So we have to ensure that our decisions are done properly, accurately, and according to all the Prudential guidelines of banking. But that is done in a very, very efficient time efficient way, cost-efficient way as well. 

Host: Absolutely.

Mr. Unwana Esang: And were then able to meet that, that, that number one need of our customers.

Host: Brilliance, I mean, I'm enjoying this so far. So tell me, you know, when or when we've seen that ANGEL financing, right yeah is what's most SMEs use in starting up their businesses. Yeah. Right. So 40% of businesses in Nigeria, according to our recent survey, said they will prefer private equity or debt financing to fund their businesses, right? But what we see today is that 48% actually use ANGEL financing. Yes. And of course, there's also a clear cultural predisposition against loans in Nigeria. Now, that's arguable, it's a valuable fact. Yes, that's it. It's cultural. It's a cultural disposure against loans, right? Because I also see that a number of people are trying to they're beginning to be more open to taking loans. Exactly. What just tell me, how have you been able to make loans appealing to SME business owners? Right? And maybe just what you also think about, what do you think can be done to remove the cultural stigma for those that have that bias, that is taking loans.

Mr. Unwana Esang: Okay. So there are many, there are different dimensions towards you know, addressing them, let me start with the cultural predisposition. And yes, you said it's an arguable fact I agree. And, I mean, the facts support that view. If you look at CBN data, Q3 2021, right, consumer loans rose by 37% year on year to 2 Trillion Naira. And that was driven by, you know, better credit appraisals and product diversification offered by banks, such as primary microfinance banks, right? In that same period, the CBN determined that Nigeria's MSME credit gap stood at 617 billion, the gap. So the available finance vessels, the addressable need, that gap was 617 billion. So there's a massive untapped potential for financing in this market. And so that that clearly points to the fact that there's this strong appetite for loans. And in terms of even how that disposition or predisposition has evolved, generation after generation, we find that, whereas that cultural bias was strong two, three generations ago today, is very much less so. Right. And also, it's driven by very pragmatic needs, the economy, and the population is growing very rapidly. So the demand for goods and services is growing. And so 20, 30 years ago, whereas you could fund your business's balance sheets through, you know, family and friends, funding, the demand that's out there require financing that's beyond the curiosity that'll be provided by, you know, was not talked about six hundred and seventeen billion precisely, you know, so it's, it's, it's something that has played very well into the relationship between service providers such as ours and so to the question around how we make you know, loans appealing to customers to any, to any customer or client who is credible and really wants to have a healthy relationship with his or her friend finances or their finances. The biggest fear is whether are we able to repay as and when due, right, once that concern is addressed, it becomes easier for them to digest the idea of taking a loan, because they know that, okay, like in the case of primary microfinance bank, there are various ways of working together to achieve full and final repayments as and when due. And I'll give you an example, during the COVID period, we saw that a lot of our customers were struggling. Because of the strong relationships we have with them, we were able to determine very clearly who was struggling and who wasn't. I mean, the numbers also showed very clearly and all that, and what we did was even within that whole lockdown scenario, we engaged with them, and were able to arrive at restructuring for quite a number of loans, we were able to also take certain haircuts on certain fees, just to make sure that at the end of the day, the customer is able to come back. And what they are, what they would be required to pay is something that they would have the capacity to do, right? And so for us, when when we say we are partners for growth, that thinking and that philosophy is infused into everything we do. And by the time a customer sees that look, these are people who are ready to sit with us and work with us as partners to grow this business. And whenever they are challenged, they sit, we all come around the table to address those challenges together, right? Because we are stakeholders in the success of their business as well. And that makes it a lot easier for them too.

Host: Let me stretch commercially just be more, right? Because you talked about the 617 billion in terms of available financing, right? The addressable gap, the addressable gap, so that six or 17 billion with the changing outlook, or changing the bias of Nigerians towards debts, because now you see two speeches on Nigerians. And they actually believe that they have to have debts, does it worry you, that you are dealing with maybe risky or even now more risky assets?

Mr. Unwana Esang: It's a fact of life. And so we have to deal with it worrying about it will solve the problem. What will solve it is how we understand the challenge that that presents. And how do we build into our credit decisioning algorithms and processes and systems to make sure that we're able to determine because at the end of the day, it's, it's our duty to protect our shareholder's funds, and make sure that we lend only to credible customers who can pay back? And who meets the acceptance criteria for our risk assets. Right. And so it's a win-win for everybody. If, as we do at Primera, we approach it from the perspective of okay, this is the gap, this is the challenge. This is the appetite, how do we arrive at systems that are able to clearly tell us, right, who is credible, who is not right, and the actual need of that credible person? And then we address that person's specific gap within the bucket.

Host: That’s actually quite interesting because I was just thinking to myself, this is Nigeria, a country where we don't even know how much oil we import, right? data, the data is, you know, it's supposed to be all over the place. But now we have to sort of piece precisely information together precisely. So when you talk about getting data, we're gonna help you assess the creditworthiness, that's essentially what we are saying.

Mr. Unwana Esang: That's essentially it. 

Host: Yes. So what challenges does that put for you?

Mr. Unwana Esang: That's essentially it. Yes. So what challenges does that put for you? huge, massive challenges. So we have a system where we have several buckets of biometric data of the same people but sitting in different dimensions. So I mean, Bimbo, for example, you have a passport, you are biometrical, you know, identified for that. That data sits somewhere. You have a driver's license, the same thing, it's in another place. I mean, you have a phone, you have a bank account. Each of these data sets speaks to the same person, but they are scattered all over the place. That Even in a situation where, you know, there exists such data, absolutely. In many cases, I mean, when you do studies about financial inclusion and all of that, the problem is more around exclusion. Right. And that is what is being addressed. Okay. Now look at the imbalance between BVN, I fully identified BVN customers are banks, between 50, and no more than 60 million. I look at another data set NIN, which is approaching a Hundred million today we're talking of the same people. But we have a system where we have a differential of almost double between one data set and the other. So now imagine what would happen if the BVN system is integrated with the NIN system, immediately we've doubled the scope of addressable, identifiable individuals, and that cleaner can then enter data, just by the stroke of a pen literally, absolutely, we merge those two datasets. And we have a much wider scope with clean data absolutely, that we can deal with. So those are the types of challenges we face. But then I'm quite happy that technology has helped our financial institutions to be very creative. In some times optimizing available data from various sources. Cross analyzing that with available data from these biometrically obtained datasets and we arrive at a better

Host: So on a lighter note, you're not worried about borrowing somebody in Cameroon, your phones

Mr. Unwana Esang: Well somebody in Cameroon is outside. Outside the jurisdictions that I'm allowed to, but in a situation where I'm able to identify and reach that person and my regulator allows me to, I have no problems whatsoever doing that.

Host: Okay, so I'm sure you've noticed that they don't have issues with SME owners running their businesses with their personal accounts. Yes, instead of sort of registering the business accounts precisely so that if the funds are commingled, and that sort of speaks a bit to where the governance at those organizations, yes, now these habits can be can have had adverse effects right on the financial and operating effectiveness of those businesses. What do you think is a lasting solution to helping solve these intrapreneurs? See, that there's a, there's a difference between the business and the person running the business. 

Mr. Unwana Esang: Yes. Okay. So fundamentally, let's, let's address one issue, every businessman wants to succeed, every businesswoman wants to succeed, and every businessman and woman is ready to do what is necessary, of course, legally, to make that happen. So fundamentally, there is a very strong appetite to do, to to to do the right things and have the right habits for success. But we also need to recognize certain gaps, there's a gap around education, which we at Primera through our SME clinics, you know, we are addressing very, very vigorously to educate them around the needs for registration. And when you speak on registration and making their businesses more formal and better governed, what you described is basically, it's simply a reflection in response to the difficulties that the average SME owners encounter in trying to say register their business and operate their accounts. So there's a barrier to entry into the formally registered business space, there are costs that are incurred in running a bank account, and they are also the barriers to entry. Right, we need to be lowered as well. So what we need to do from an institutional perspective, from a societal perspective, from a governance perspective is to say, look, what are those barriers? What are those obstacles, at least from the perspective of the SME owners? Let's have an honest conversation about how we can lower that and make it easier make it attractive to become a registered business. What's wrong with declaring a six-month holiday on the costs of registering a business? Absolutely. There's nothing wrong with that, how much would it cost?

Host: And make it efficient as well?

Mr. Unwana Esang: Precisely, make it efficient, right? So you're it's a subsidy, but you're subsidizing the right thing because what you're doing is you're bringing business, you're bringing a lot of businesses into the formal space, they then become more, they then become taxable, you know, and they can operate in their own right as businesses. So I mean, what you described is really a reflex to these problems, and we need to then focus upon those and, you know, solve them.

Host: That analysis to an internal question around what the biggest issues are. Yeah, so if I asked you, what's the bigger issue for an SME of these mammoth problems, absence of governance and structures, at the MSMEs, or lack of financing?

Mr. Unwana Esang: That's a very interesting one. Both are very close. But I would go for the absence of governance, right? Because what that does is that it impacts the availability negatively, negatively impacts the availability of infrastructure. And for the businesses to run, that infrastructure needs to be provided. And you find SMEs having to fund by themselves, the provision of that infrastructure, right, power, security, and so many other things. That absence of governance also leads to the phenomenon of multiple taxations, where you have various government agencies within the same jurisdiction chasing down MSME owners for various levies and taxes really is basically a gap in governance, just synchronizing, and sitting down to say, look, these SME owners are stakeholders in our space if they do well, the society we govern does well. So how do we streamline their obligations in terms of taxes and levies and so on, and make it easier for them, and in doing so we even have better transparency, you know, you know, taxes and how much we can get? And we plow that back into the infrastructure. So you see if the cycle and this, this is some this is something I've seen, in my experience cutting across Africa, I mean, I've worked in various African countries, and it's quite interesting how the culture the language is changed, but the fundamental challenges are the same.

Host: Absolutely you know, absolutely. Okay. Very good. Thanks. Thanks for that. Well, so beyond the struggles for finances, secure finances. Right. The other things that SMEs also face that our challenges, right, as power failures for months and availability due to electricity. Right? Lack of entrepreneurial education. Insecurity.

Mr. Unwana Esang: Exactly. Huge, huge everybody that takes you and me.

Host: That’s everybody’s problem. And then we've seen that your company has partnered with INTRA branches to deliver solar power. Yes. To businesses via asset financing. Yes. You've also partnered with the likes of SME malls to host webinars on business growth. Yes. Right. But what has been the impact of these partnerships? Yeah. And what initiatives do you plan to pursue to ensure that these SMEs thrive?

Mr. Unwana Esang: So the partnership that you described is basically proof of concepts from our perspective? So I mean, let us test the waters and see if we can, you know, make a difference working with these partnerships. And the early results have been very, very encouraging. So when you talk of a situation where are our energy costs spiraling? And there's now a common sense conversation around renewable energy, the question is, how available and how accessible? Can we make that and we, our partnerships with INFREE branches, for example, and a few others that we are currently, you know, discussing with will help to make it more affordable, and more available. And we're talking of renewable energy systems cutting across different income brackets, okay? So it's something that can be afforded by the roadside, Barber, and so on, and so forth, right job to families, and homes and businesses. So the early results have been very good. And these partnerships have shown us that this is the way forward. And we are set to announce a number of other partnerships in the near future that speak to the various areas of impact that we're looking to make.

Host: Is anyone that you’re meant to share for now?

Mr. Unwana Esang: Not at the moment. close to my chest for now, where we're still, we're still bound under a non-disclosure situation at the moment, but we'll come out with announcements sooner than later.

Host: All right, sounds good. And then there was a report recently, the State of Entrepreneurship in Nigeria, a 2021 report by the Fritz Institutes that revealed that 67% of Entrepreneurs in Nigeria are between 18 and 35 years old. So we're basically seeing the rise of, a rapid rise of young business owners. Exactly. Right. So what's the strategy to attract this? attract and retain this set of people? Yes. Do you have any customized, customized products in the works to address? And does any part of this concern you? Or give you any concerns?

Mr. Unwana Esang: No concerns but rather an excitement, okay? Because the, and this is inevitable, I mean, the demographic change points very clearly, to the fact that this is the this will be I mean, the young younger people are now the force to be reckoned with. At Primera, we are digital first, okay? And the demographic you described, are digital-first digital natives as well. So, it's actually, for me really exciting. It gives us an opportunity to look at new ways of repositioning our products, new ways of creating access to those products on a self-service basis for such you know, customers, and knowing full well that these are customers who are more comfortable with being assessed for, you know, their viability in a digital way. And then, and therefore would be quite ready to engage, you know, along that dimension. So for us, it's huge.

Host: It's an alignment with your current, completely. For digital, these are young, you know and coming group who are also digital, completely, so it's a meeting of minds.

Mr. Unwana Esang: Absolutely. That's why we're really excited about it.

Host: Yeah, of course, because today, interconnectedness is a significant characteristic of today's site ware, absolutely. identical things IoT is a big large exchange of data, it's pretty much how you run business today. Right. But embedding finance is integrated or is integrated into financial services today, to elevate client experience on Software unification. It's also helping to yield consistent and efficient global operations globally, right? Yes. Well, let me ask you, how have you leveraged technology, right? interconnectedness, IoT, right, to improve your customer's experience, or to deliver the customer, let me put it that way, to deliver customer experience. Yes. Right. And if you haven't, what are your plans to enhance that? If you're already in it? And if you haven't, what are your plans to do? So?

Mr. Unwana Esang: Yeah, I mean, thanks. Great question. So the first thing, the first thing we need to understand is the process that lands any business at automation, which is the end goal, at least for now. And that then opens up, you know, possibilities for the Internet of Things, IoT, and so on. The first is you need to digitize everything around you. So for example, whereas somebody engaged with the bank by filling out a paper form, you move those forms to electronic forms, and the existing forms you have in your records, you digitize them and make them available electronically. There's a sort of archive management system Precisely, precisely, then you look at your processes as well, how many of those are hugely dependent on, you know, manual interventions, and so on, and you need to then significantly whittle that down. And what that does when you digitize your processes is that it creates better transparency, you're able to really understand how well or how not well, so to speak, you're serving your customer. And when you create such an ecosystem, such a transparent ecosystem, it makes it gets you ready for automation because automation is driven by, I mean, driven by bots is driven by logic is driven by algorithms. These are not animate, right? And they can only interface with, you know, digital platforms as well. So for us, we are on that journey. And you know, the word journey, I'm using that deliberately, because that is really what it is. It's an evolution. But we're really happy with the pace that we've made our primary microfinance bank on that journey. And we're very happy with the partnerships that you know, we have established that help us along those lines and the results we've seen across various impact areas our clients experience management and lending follow right from origination through to managing the portfolio, data management, and analytics, even our costs, management and expense management systems have now been digitized. Our sales and marketing have been digitized our human capital management, internal to the firm, we've digitized all of that, all those all the systems and processes that support these areas I've described, I've described, we've digitized them, and we are getting them ready for automation and testing which will then open us up to possibilities that IoT presents. 

Host: Fantastic, okay so let's, let's now even focus a bit more on technology. Right? Yeah. Because we are in a digitized world. Absolutely. Right. So I think one of the key emerging technologies or one of the technologies that even set the pace these days is blockchain. Yes. Yes. A lot of financial institutions the world over have keyed into the blockchain. Yes. Right. Given that access to finance is a core concern for SMEs, how do you think blockchain can drive the sector? And what impact can it have on finances? Right? and other financial institutions?

Mr. Unwana Esang: Blockchain, Blockchain carries really really huge potential, very strong, right? And the used cases that become most apparent are the B2B payment space, that is the Business to Business payment space, offering financial solutions and we’re seeing Global firms like AMEX, VISA, and Mastercard building such capabilities and investing in them, we’ve also seen a couple of Companies that you know have attracted seed capital to fund that. The question though is when we look at the Nigerian context from the customer side, from the financing side, the Banks, and from the regulatory dimension as well, how comfortable, how ready are we to adopt Blockchain? We’ve seen Globally, a certain unease from the regulatory perspective around adopting Blockchain and that is completely understandable. Regulation thrives in transparency and openness. Blockchain, the underlying principle around Blockchain is almost the opposite, there’s certain anonymity so to speak around players in that space, bridging that gap. The ability to bridge that gap is what will significantly expand our ability to leverage it. But looking at the pure form, what does that technology, Blockchain technology offers, are there very strong used cases, and is there a business case for it? Yes, there is, clearly across various dimensions, I talked about B2B payment. But for us to participate especially as a regulated entity. The regulatory angle and the comfort of the regulatory body or bodies need to be addressed. So there has to be a dialogue that puts everyone at ease around how we.

Host: But the concerns of the regulatory body are specifically around Blockchain or around Cryptocurrency because cryptocurrency leverages blockchain.

Mr. Unwana Esang: Precisely.

Host: However, the regulations have expressed concerns over crypto because it’s a currency, but in terms of blockchain technology, I mean is that something you think the regulators would be averse to welcoming?

Mr. Unwana Esang: For me the jury is still allowed, I don’t see an aversion, I rather see a willingness to interrogate further, I mean like you said, cryptocurrency is a derivative of blockchain, the question is okay what other derivatives of blockchain will come up and how do we deal, are we able to deal. That’s really the fundamental question, right? Whereas the point of argument was around cryptocurrency. I feel fundamental what it really was is what is this thing called Blockchain? What’s this animal, what else can it throw at us in the future, how better can we understand, how better can we integrate into a way and manner that does not create certain risks that would be unpalatable to players in the industry and probably create some imbalance in the system, in the system I think.

Host: You know, I like the fact that you’ve talked about a journey, you know because I think any organization that is not on a journey, right? Is either in a place of complacency, which inevitably means a decline in business, right? A journey means that you’re on the path of continuous improvement.

Mr. Unwana Esang: Yes 

Host: Either you’re small looking to be big or big looking to be even bigger.

Mr. Unwana Esang: Absolutely.

Host: But I think for me, for Primera, the question for me is when is Primera going to key into the blockchain. When are we going to see Primera going to key into Blockchain? When are we going to see Primera say “We’re going into Blockchain” right? In this journey, so this journey with viewers, when do we see, give us a timeline.

Mr. Unwana Esang: It’s not possible honestly, it’s impossible to give a timeline and you know that, right? Again we’re regulated, right? But what we are happy to see is, we’re happy to see our regulators really begin to come out with you know discussion papers and working papers around how this, the financial system can leverage a lot of this technology, right? And so it’s very welcome, we would rather work at the pace of both and there is a tension, let’s be very clear about that, there is a tension between what the market wants, the opportunities it see’s and you know what the pace of adoption from industry and regulation is. Managing that balance and that tension really is key. So while at this point quite clearly, nobody can give a timeline at least from our perspective, what I can say is that sooner than later, we will arrive at those milestones and make you know, those possibilities available.

Host: Excellent, excellent, thank you. And then you know in financial services, right? Specifically, we’ve seen that automation is helping businesses unlock a lot of value through things like improved revenues, customer service, customer access, inefficient risk management, and even at PwC, right? One of the pillars of our strategy is being digital and that is twofold for us. So one fold, everything we do is digital.

Mr. Unwana Esang: Precisely

Host: We have a global partnership with Google, when there was a pandemic, we were able to work seamlessly, in fact, I think we had.

Mr. Unwana Esang: So did we actually at Primera?

Host: And of course, the second leg is how we engage our clients, we engage clients with digital solutions, precisely those are the kinds we optimize. So for you, what role has digitization and automation played in your internal processes and service delivery?

Mr. Unwana Esang: Massive, massive, massive role and it’s something that we’re very excited about, I mean take for example we’ve grown as a business very strongly year and year over the past two years. From customer count, the number of transactions, and the balance sheets.

Host: The way you exercise, pick one of the metrics and tell us.

Mr. Unwana Esang: I mean so for example we’ve between 2020 and now, we’ve more than doubled our balance sheet, in two and a half years. Profitability also has followed that same traction, that same trend. 

Host: Excellent

Mr. Unwana Esang: In terms of our customer size, we’ve doubled our customer size as well, and we’re able to serve those customers very very comfortably without expanding our headcount. Our headcount has stayed the same if I mean quite frankly, it has actually fallen a bit, and what that says is that we’ve acquired the capacities to run a bigger business, and serve more customers but with fewer people. The only way to do that is by digitization and automation, and so the fact that I can you know share these facts clearly tells anybody.

Host: So what would you say to skeptics, people that don’t believe that significant technology spending results in improved business performance and savings down the road? What are the things you would say to skeptics about that, around that?

Mr. Unwana Esang: I would say, if you are averse to investing in technology, you’re investing in the gradual death of your business.

Host: Wow

Mr. Unwana Esang: And there‘s no other way to put it. Yes, it’s profound, and that’s the truth.

Host: Thank you. I think maybe my final question as we close out this session is, what do you hope the next years would look like for SMEs and the Nigerian economy, and what role more importantly is Primera going to play in achieving this future?

Mr. Unwana Esang: I think with the relatively little that we at Primera Microfinance Bank have at our disposal and how we’ve been able to deploy those resources, it is very clear that our ambitions are very strongly aligned towards growing the Nigerian economy from the SMEs and they continue banking with us, we will grow. That’s how we see ourselves growing, we see ourselves growing through the prosperity we are able to create for our customers.

Host: Excellent.

Mr. Unwana Esang: And when we arrive at that point, we want to in 10 years time, look back on where we are today and be very proud standing with our partners, our SMEs who by then would be corporate, they would no longer be termed SMEs because they would have grown and then make ourselves available to the next generation of SMEs who want to grow, to become what we have become and who want to take from the example that our customers are able to display, to you know, to attain such heights and we would all be better for it as far as the Nigerian economy is concerned and we’re absolutely committed to achieving that dream.

Host: Excellent thank you, thank you, thank you so much. I think before you go, so we have a number of questions for you, three questions.

Mr. Unwana Esang: More questions, I love that, let’s go.

Host: Yes, so we are over with the formal interview, but I think now I just want to take you into three questions that will tell us about Unwana, right?

Mr. Unwana Esang: Okay, Unwana right?

Host: The first one here is, actually, there are four questions but I will still wrap out the last question in a moment. Of the three questions, the first one here is that what’s one view you seem to find very few people agree on.

Mr. Unwana Esang: I would say.

Host: These are even harder than the initial questions.

Mr. Unwana Esang: Absolutely, I mean this is tougher. I think the most difficult thing a human being can achieve is changing. And I think the most difficult question especially if you have a group of people is how do we achieve that change, and in my experience, it’s easier to talk about change and way more difficult to actually carry out change and the debate around what change means and how the change will be carried out. I think it’s a topic that I find there are as many perspectives as they are people and that always makes for a very, very healthy and robust debate.

Host: From the previous interviewer that I had or the interviewee that we had here. He answered a number of questions like you’ve done today. But we don’t let our interviewees go without throwing in questions for the next interviewee.

Mr. Unwana Esang: Fair enough.

Host: So we are here now and I’m about to tell you what he asked you to answer and you also have the opportunity to ask our next interviewee what his own question would be.

Mr. Unwana Esang: Perfect

Mr. Unwana Esang: So this question, I think it’s from the CEO of Kuda.

Mr. Unwana Esang: Oh interesting, okay great.

Host: It says, do you use digital finance products, why or why not.

Mr. Unwana Esang: I use digital, so yes personally I use digital finance products, payments mostly, no not loans or lending, but yeah I use them all the time, and I use them because they just make life easier for me. I am able to make my payments, I’m able to see them, and yeah and it’s convenient. So I think that it’s the ease and convenience that it brings that attracts me to them. And a huge, I run my life literally on digital products yeah.

Host: All right, very good. Okay so now that you’ve answered those questions tell us 

Mr. Unwana Esang: My turn

Host: What, yeah it’s your turn, absolutely it’s your turn, what would you want the next person to answer?

Mr. Unwana Esang: I would like the next interviewee to answer the question about disruption, where does He or She see disruption evolving in the financial service space in Nigeria and what specific dimensions if He or She can share, where does He or She see the potential impact areas and impact scopes of that next phase of disruption in the Nigerian financial services space and that’s what I’m looking to know.

Host: I hope that would make for a very difficult question. So thank you very much Unwana for coming to PwC’s podcast studio, looking forward to also having you again and again right?

Mr. Unwana Esang: Thank you, thank you so much. It was a real pleasure, thank you so very much.