Dominique: Hello and welcome to this episode of Women in Finance, a mini- series that’s part of PwC Canada’s “Finance in 15” podcast. My name is Dominique Fortier. I’m Director of Client Services at PwC Canada. I’m very pleased to be your host today. We’re launching this special series to expand discussions on how to build the finance function of the future. Today we’ll be hearing the viewpoints of two senior executives navigating the ever-changing world of finance. For this episode, I’m delighted to welcome Maarika Paul, Executive Vice-President and Chief Financial and Operations Officer at Quebec’s Caisse de dépôt et placement (the CDPQ), and Lisa To, Head of Financial Management and Performance within the Finance Group of the Business Development Bank of Canada (the BDC). Welcome to you both, Maarika and Lisa.
Maarika: Hello and thanks.
Dominique: Before we go diving into the deep end, can I ask each of you to briefly describe your role within your organization?
Maarika: OK, Dominique, I’ll start. I’m Maarika. I’ve spent over 10 years at the CDPQ, initially as CFO in charge of various activities, including treasury, tax, disclosures, budgeting, performance analysis and evaluation, and also internal auditing. Subsequently, the organization’s mandate was expanded to include operations and the back office, which are now part of our entire disclosure chain. I also assist my colleagues working in the areas of talent and performance, digital technologies and public affairs. In addition, I chair the COE, a committee that encompasses all our general services. So that’s a summary of what I do at the CDPQ.
Lisa: As for me, I head the BDC’s Financial Management and Performance Group, which is divided into four main sections. There’s the financial planning and business partnership team; treasury and pension fund management; performance management and business analytics; and finally, procurement and supplier relations. In addition to those more operational functions, I’m also the “godmother” or executive sponsor of various strategic and transformational programs at the BDC.
Dominique: Very interesting. So, Lisa and Maarika, it’s clear that your professional backgrounds are very different, although you’ve both taken on executive roles. It’s also true that the financial leadership role has evolved a good deal over the years. I’ll start with you, Maarika. Drawing on your extensive experience, how would you describe the qualities that a good finance leader needs in 2022?
Maarika: Well, I’ll give you a short summary of my background. To start out, I spent 10 years at KPMG, focusing on auditing and corporate finance. I then spent 16 years at BCE in various roles. In the beginning, I focused on performance analysis, budgeting, mergers, acquisitions. Those really were roles that dealt with technical questions in various sectors. That was important. Then I got into relations with investors and financial communications. After that, I was asked to run the CEO’s office. That was when I gained insight into governance and the politics of the organization. I became Senior Vice-President of Corporate Services, which included things like real estate and the Bell fleet at the time. All that involved managing large teams in various service areas that I had no expertise in. I think when you have the opportunity to play different roles that are not necessarily connected to each other, there are lots of roles in there about which you’d say, wow, why would a CFO do that? So that gives you a chance to do that. It’s like drawing by numbers, you’re not quite sure at the end if you’ve connected all the dots. And in the end, that’s what makes a good CFO. When you’re fully involved on the inside, you don’t necessarily see it. I think that’s what it takes.
Dominique: I really like your analogy about drawing by numbers. You can see that there’s lots of colours on top of that, you can see lots of colours for future finance managers. What about you, Lisa? What attracted you to a role in financial management?
Lisa: It’s precisely what Marika just said. It’s an evolutionary process. To tell you the truth, 25 or 30 years ago, after I graduated, even though I’d majored in financial accounting, I decided to go into finance. So after that, I got involved in SAP technology consulting, international trade, lots of risk management in the financial markets, compliance and process management. I finally realized that there’s a place where the cash is flowing to. You get to see an organization’s circulatory system. And that’s what the finance function is. At the same time, I wasn’t the only one to realize that. Marika just said it. The profession has evolved, the group has evolved, the finance functions have evolved. We’re beginning to take on more of an advisory role, trying more to explain how to create value, identify potentially hidden opportunities, but especially to normalize that. Everyone goes about things in their own way within an organization, even though they end up at the same destination. But in the finance function, we’re able to explain things, to extract the real message from all the figures. That’s always been something that fascinates me, and it still does.
Dominique: Excellent. That brings me right to the heart of the next question. We’ve seen that the finance function has been transformed over the past few years thanks to new technologies and data analytics. So how do we keep on transforming the finance team, to continue the evolutionary process and ensure that it is top-of-mind in business strategies and that it is essential for senior managers when making decisions? Lisa, you’ve already begun to delve into that issue, could you continue down that road a bit?
Lisa: Yes, I’d say it’s one of the main things I spend lots of time on. We have that privilege because we’ve just...
Maarika: Seen…
Lisa: We just have to make a link between what we see with the operations, with the business units. And then we have to translate all that information. I trained as a CMA and a CFA, so I can translate things into decisions and questions. Because making a good decision is fine but avoiding making a bad decision is just as important. You really become a trusted advisor or an expert advisor in the CEO’s orbit. That’s it, I think that will make us indispensable, among many other things.
Dominique: Marika, what about you? How do you see the major levers for transforming finance teams and continuing that evolutionary process?
Maarika: Well that’s the thing, you have to be a strategic partner. And like Lisa said, to be one, you have to understand what’s going on and make connections, as she noted. But the other advantage we have is that we also have an independent point of view. There are investment teams, etc. Everyone has a nuanced perspective on how they want to present the results. People always say that you can make numbers say whatever you like, but it takes something like the finance function to be the reliable group that’s independent, that will provide an accurate picture of what’s going on. That’s super-important. Especially in valuation teams, for example. Another thing that’s increasingly important in the finance function is the ability to simplify things, to get rid of all the bottlenecks, to change the processes, communications or activities. One of my ex-bosses always used to say that there are two types of people in the world, the simplifiers and the “complicators, the ones that make things more complex. You certainly don’t want to end up among the “complicators”. I think that’s super-important.
Dominique: Thank you very much. Now let’s turn to resource management for a bit. One of the major challenges facing CFOs is definitely the shortage of talent that is affecting all organizations nowadays, large and small. I’d like to know what steps you’re taking to deal with that shortage.
Maarika: I’ll start. Our people need to feel that they’re making a difference. They need to know that what they’re doing is contributing throughout the organization. And their work has to be recognized, whether they’re someone in accounts payables or they’re calculating returns or issuing debt. Each of those activities is important to the organization. People have to know how those activities are carried out, and their efforts have to be recognized. I think that’s what’s important. We’re doing lots of work now on what are known as the professions of the future. For example, in finance, we’re asking what is necessary? Are new technology capabilities needed? Do we know how to use all the new software applications or available tools? Do we know how to analyze or predict and then influence? Because if we feel influential, then we feel that our role is important. So that’s my take on what will help us retain our talent.
Lisa: If I could add something, looking for and retaining talent is a daily activity. At BDC, I think we have an advantage, Dominique, because our organization rolls with the times. We also do CDQ. Often, our people and the profiles we recruit are individuals who happen to be aligned with our mission. That’s unique. We benefit a good deal from being involved in that. Plus our organization complies with specific requirements and standards involving the environment, social performance and governance. Finally, I agree with what Maarika said. One of the things I’ve noticed that can help us do a better job of retaining our employees and our talent is to show them a career pathway. It’s a recent phenomenon: people have less interest in staying in finance for 30 years, which may have been standard practice in the past. But today, our professionals would like to see other things, such as growing outside the finance function or even within it, building a finance group. And that’s good because as we just said, to be a good finance person, you have to be able to make links and you need to understand what’s going on. That’s strongly encouraged and it’s easy to say, but you have to implement it, you have to plan it because we do have capabilities, along with lots of work to be done.
Dominique: Excellent. You’ve already touched on the next question. I was going to ask you to look into the future and to consider what finance leaders must be thinking about the future. You touched on the values and the professions of the future. Do you see any other major trends that should be top of mind or should be a priority for the teams of the future? Maarika, why don’t you start?
Maarika: There are two types of leaders. There are the experts, people with expertise in finance, investments or risks. But there are also people who are managers. Those two qualities don’t always go hand in hand. People always thought that to become a leader, you had to be a manager, you had to manage teams, etc. But we created career paths for both types. There are people who always wanted to be technical experts in some field and we need them. But they don’t want to manage people. Whereas many other people aspire to manage a team. But I think we need pathways for each type of leader. They need to be capable of being influencers, people who analyze and, above all, good communicators. Like I said about simplifiers, for me, that’s what it will take to be a leader in the future.
Dominique: What about you, Lisa? Anything come to mind?
Lisa: Yes, I agree with the same list of qualities that Maarika mentioned. We have to be demanding. I’ll add two more things. I think that with all changes, there will be something that remains, so I’d say a leader has to be an experienced change agent, perhaps also with technological expertise. I’m specifically referring to analysts and data analytics.
Dominique: It’s reassuring to see that two leaders agree on the important things for the future. We’re already approaching the end of our episode, so I wanted to ask you a bunch of quick questions so I can get to know you a little better, from a different angle. So if you had the opportunity to meet a leader, from the business world or any other area, who would it be and why?
Lisa: I would definitely have liked to have met Mother Teresa. She was a woman of conviction and resilience. I like how she persevered to accomplish her mission.
Maarika: I’d like to meet Barack Obama. He’s intelligent, interesting and an excellent communicator.
Dominique: Wonderful. How about something you’d like to say thank you for, something you’re grateful for.
Maarika: For me, there are two things I’m grateful for. My health, I don’t quite know who to thank for that. And my bosses, who gave me opportunities to prove myself.
Lisa: I’d like to thank everyone I’ve come in contact with, either directly or indirectly, during my lifetime, particularly the people who helped me, either professionally or non-professionally. Particularly those individuals who challenged me or who made my life difficult because that was when I learned something valuable.
Dominique: That’s brave. That’s a quality you notice among the younger generation.
Maarika: Curiosity and the ability to adopt new technologies.
Lisa: In the same vein. Conviction.
Dominique: When you were little, what did you want to be when you grew up?
Lisa: You’re going to laugh. All I wanted to be was a cashier. That's it. But life took me in other directions.
Maarika: I wanted to be a diplomat at the United Nations.
Dominique: No less.
Maarika: I love languages. I didn’t know what a diplomat did but I liked languages. So I told myself, but you’d have to speak several languages at the UN. So that was short-lived.
Dominique: Super, thank you very much. Two quick questions to conclude. What do you find funny about being CFO or what about it makes you laugh? It’s not an easy question.
Lisa: That’s an easy one for me because I have a CFO. And I’d say it right to his face. People think that finance people are often serious, even a little boring. But that’s not the case at all. In finance, you can have a lot of fun.
Maarika: The thing that makes me laugh is that each spring, people who don’t really understand finance always says to me, “Ah, you must be busy with all your tax reports.”
Dominique: That’s so true! And to finish off our flurry of questions, I’d like you to name something you’d like to pass along to the next generation of finance leaders.
Lisa: I’d often advised our young leaders to remain curious because the finance function is where you get to ask questions. And it’s cross-disciplinary, you see the flow quite clearly via our tools and our operational knowledge, but in financial terms, it’s really a privileged position within an organization. Don’t hesitate to ask questions, to make connections. I firmly believe that the more you understand what’s really being done in the interim, with our financial knowledge, the better the finance function’s performance will be. And you can take the organization in new directions.
Maarika: What I’d like to pass along to the next generation is that all of our more boring and manual tasks and processes, that still exist, well, we’re solving those problems. We’re automating things so teams can focus on predicting and forecasting, so they can bring value added. We talked about analyzing very usable data that brings value. We should be focusing on that and setting all the boring stuff to one side. That’s what I want to see in the future.
Dominique: Fantastic, Marika and Lisa. It was really, really enjoyable to speak with you today. Thank you for being with us. To everyone listening, stay tuned for the upcoming episodes of Women in Finance, which will be available this fall. If you’d like to listen to our first episode, please go to our website and look for “The Future of the Finance Function”, where you’ll find our discussions with Vanessa Canoux, Chief Financial Officer of Telus International. I hope you enjoyed this episode of our special series “Women in Finance”. Of course, we’d be delighted to hear your opinion on this series. So thank you for subscribing, sharing and leaving an assessment or a comment. My name is Dominique Fortier. Thanks for listening to this special episode of “Finance in 15”. This podcast was prepared by PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP, a limited liability partnership in Ontario, for the purpose of providing general information on various topics of interest. Needless to say, the contents of this podcast are not meant to replace professional advice.
